Interview 14/06/2016 0:04.0 – 1:58.0 M: So I talked to you about 2 years ago, maybe a bit more, so you were in, at the time you were about to come out, you were quite motivated to change for your son, so what’s happened since I saw you that time? Well…ma contact wae ma son stopped. I got oot, ma mum told us she’d cancer. Emm, I done really well, I stayed oot for 3 months in the community drug free and I got a, a what’s it called, a PSL flat through that, for staying drug free in the community. I met a girl, she moved in wae us, em…8 month later I got the jail again [wry/surprised laugh]. I went back on drugs, don’t know if it was to dae wae aw the stuff aboot no getting to speak to ma boy anymare, being wae a girl who was nippy, does your nut in, and eh, the fact that ma mum had cancer, and she was going through treatment and stuff, and I didn’t know what was going on. So, I know it’s a load of excuses but that was all the stuff that was going on for me and I found it hard to deal wae it all so, basically I went back tae what I was always known best to dae and that’s take drugs and commit crime and, came back here again. Luckily I never died. M: Could you have? Well it’s a possibility, overdose on drugs and die, so being back here and being given another opportunity to fix ma life, it’s…probably, good (laughs) I would say. Yeah so… 1:58.0 – 3:49.0 M: And do you remember why, you said you were drug free and you were living with somebody who was difficult and there was difficult things going on, like do you remember when you took drugs again, was it the drugs first I’m assuming or the crime first? The drugs then crime. M: Right, so what happened, do you remember? I don’t really, I dae remember but when you start taking valium, I just start stealin, I cannae stop maself fae stealing when I take valium. I wouldnae dare steal like being straight, but like, as soon as I take a valium it’s like, eh, it takes your choices away fae you, and I go back to when I’m younger and just steal, it’s very weird to explain. I was even speaking to a councilor aboot it cause I think I just cannae stop stealing when I’m taking valium. M: And can you stop taking valium? It’s, well yeah if I stop taking them, but then there’s, all the issues before that that leads to that, like, if I look at it and I go, the valium’s gonnae dae all this tae me, and I end up back in jail or maybe dead, or I dae this and don’t dae any of it, and keep daeing what I’m daeing, you can only, em, make the good choice for so long, and then everything just gets on top of you, and then you go wae the bad choice. You say fuck it. Which is sad. But, if I knew that answer tae why I say fuck it, then I would be rich, cause I would be able to stop everybody fae daeing that. It’s like a need, it comes over you and it’s just hard to control. You can only control it for so long, the good thing, and keeping making the good choice. But if it’s the way you’ve been all your life it’s just, you just go back to it, it’s just the way it is. 3:49.0 – 5:45.0 M: And do you remember when you said fuck it this time? Kind of. M: The day it happened, can you describe it, or not? Mmm, naw cause it was, it was gradual it was like, I cannae remember it was just loads of things, she was nippin ma nut, eh…I don’t even know, there was loads of things going on, it was just, I cannae, I cannae even remember the exact day, or the exact time, why. M: What would you have needed to not say that, do you think, like what could have…cause obviously you had a new place to live… Aye, I did, I had ma own place, and I had ma girlfriend, I had, ma family, ma mum wisnae well though, which was hard tae deal wae. Ma son was in foster care which was hard tae deal wae. So really, I nearly had everything that I actually wanted, the, like ma family, a girlfriend, a flat, and then I…I don’t know it just didnae work. And…I dunno if it’s like, escaping, going oot, taking drugs, committing crime, and coming back here. I dunno if this is like a comfort blanket, or if this is what a subconsciously want, I don’t know, I question it all the time. I’ve spoken to workers aboot it, I really don’t know, I just don’t know, I, whether this is meant to be, the way it’s meant to be, I’m meant to be in jail, I don’t know, or am I meant be oot, I havenae got a clue. People usually change their lifestyle in their late 30s or early 40s…and they don’t come back to jail for years, or they die. And I hope- M: You’re late 30s now? 5:45.0 – 8:15.0 Aye, so I hope I’m one of they people that, maybe one time, this time hopefully, go oot, and don’t come back for years, or don’t ever come back. I don’t know, I wished I knew, I don’t. I feel like it’s been ma life for that long it’s just, something that I keep daeing now. Part of me. So I need tae, keep going to all the groups, keep trying and learning and listening and talking and being honest and…just learn a different behaviour. M: Did you have any support in the community? Aye, I went and got some, I went tae, serenity caf, I was daeing meetings…but, (sighs), it wisnae enough… M: Would you have somebody then to phone like through that, who you’d be able to phone at the point when you think…? Aye a did, I had a few numbers I could phone. Didnae dae it. You just don’t dae it, it’s weird…I think you, I dunno what it is, it just, it just comes over you it’s weird. Really really hard to explain, I don’t know how it does it, why it does it, sometimes you can say naw, other times you cannae, I dunno if it’s, if I cannae handle being oot there, cause, after a certain amount a time I started feeling like I was missing something, and I don’t know if it was jail. Which is strange eh. I don’t know if I missed jail…cause it was part of ma life that I wisnae having eh. It’s hard tae explain. I’m no saying I want to be in jail, or I WAS missing jail, I’m saying these are all the things that I’ve had, I have to question the noo while I’m in. To understand…obviously jail’s no meant to be where I am, I’m meant to be outside wae ma family…but I’ve been just daeing this for so many years noo, it’s like, I cannae get oot of the habit. Don’t know if I’m institutionalized, I don’t know, I don’t know if there was something wrong wae me when I was a kid, and it never got, picked up on, I don’t know. Don’t know if there’s still, might even be something wrong wae me noo, that I don’t know aboot. 8:15.0 – 10:53.0 M: But you can do it for a while right, so there’s something there that does work, cause that’s a hard thing to do, to stay away from drugs and, when you have the opportunity. So how long were you out for? 8 months. M: Right, so that’s, is that pretty good for you? Very good. M: You have been out for a year and a half or something though? 13 months. M: 13 months ok. I think that’s ma most, 13 months. That was in England. M: So how come, so you said you took valium but it sounds like you also, you said you could have died of the overdose so did you end up going back on heroin? Heroin yeah. Heroin…eh, just drink, anything, started just taking everything and anything again. In the end. M: And then what happened? I broke into a hoose, got the jail for housebreaking and theft…and got 25 months, and I’m oot on December 2nd, I’ve already been in aboot 7 month I think, fae November last year. I got oot March 2015, I was oot to November, is that right…aye (sighs). Crazy eh. M: And how has your sentence been so far? It’s been alright, I’m working in the hairdressers again. I’m no a passman this time, I didnae want to do that, emm…aye I’m just taking it easy, trying tae…work oot whit’s what, I go to a wee group every Wednesday and talk aboot stuff, it’s called smart recovery. It’s good cause…we talk aboot, em, maybe changing ma vocabulary, no just me other people, see, cause obviously the way you think, act, the way you think, feel, you act, so, if your vocabulary’s different and you start being more assertive in life, you could maybe act a whole lot, positiver in life, and maybe be a wee bit mare stronger when it comes tae that choice again, wae good or bad [slight laugh]. I don’t know. M: So changing most of your thoughts like? Ma thought process, cause it, cannae be just this, this cannae be the way life’s meant to be, for me. Cannae be. 10:53.0 – 12:36.0 M: Kind of a mid life crisis (laughs), no more prison Well I’ve been saying it for ages noo, nae mare prison, I’ve been trying to come aff drugs and stop drugs for years and all, fae I was about 25 I think it’s been fae. That’s like 12 years I’ve been trying for…so, I don’t know. I hope I dae have a mid life crisis and that’s what happens (laughs). I just got told today I’m, I’ve lost ma flat. M: Oh right ok. So I’ve no got anywhere to stay noo. M: Did you keep it for that long then? Aye that was quite long eh, it was no meant to be that long, they must have been busy or something. But they came up today, told me. So…what, I think I’ll go back and stay with my ma for a while, cause she’s still alive. M: How is she doing now? She lost her breast, and took chemo for, 6 sets of chemo or something, and, noo she’s got to back in October to find oot if she’s still got cancer. Hopefully she’s no. M: Why does she have to wait so long? I dunno, I think it’s like, see once you’ve done the chemo and that, you wait 6 month. And then… M: Oh right to see if it’s come back. Aye, aye, cause she actually has got rid of it, so, which is really good. Cause all that happened was her hair fell oot. You should see her, she’s shaved it all off and she’s got, it’s all growing back in it’s… M: Tiny bits of hair. Aye it’s mad. But she’s alright noo. So I think I’ll go back and stay with my mam when I get oot, for a while. 12:36.0 – 14:29.0 M: Is she still with her partner? Aye. Aye they’re still together. M: Cause last time you said that her partner doesn’t want you around if you’re taking drugs so, does living with your mum mean that you can’t take drugs then? Aye, that’s right, I don’t take drugs when I’m at my mam’s. So it’s good eh. It helps me, helps me be that bit stronger. Cause sometimes when you’ve got mare things that are important in your life, that’s what makes you strong and all, you don’t want to lose. But when you’ve got no much to lose…it’s easier to take the bad choice, I think. That’s the way I’m on anyway…I think that’s the way ma thinking process works. M: And what happened with your girlfriend? I’ve still got ma girlfriend, but… M: And do you still think she’s nippy or not? Aye very nippy. M: Why is she nippy? What’s she nippy about. I don’t know she just moans at everything and anything, I don’t know if women just dae that (laughs), I don’t know if that’s what women are like. Cause, wae being in jail all the time I’ve no had like long relationships, so…and, most of ma relationships always result in drugs, and then crime, and back in jail again. I’ve had 3 relationships where they’ve lasted like, into the months. That’s terrible, 3, [slight laugh] 3 relationships…I reckon, I’ve no been able to take, I couldnae take it so I, maybe turned to drugs, maybe that’s, because I’ve no dealt wae all my own stuff. I don’t know. 14:29.0 – 16:29.0 M: So what was it about your relationship that you found hard? Just, the moaning, the nippiness. M: So what would she moan about? Just, shite (laughs). M: Not like ‘I wish you wouldn’t take drugs’ and that kind of thing? Naw, naw, that would be alright, if that was the case. No just, I dunno, they just nip yer nut, aboot anything, other women, that aren’t even there, just shite. And it’s like (sighs), it’s annoying. M: But you’re still with her? Aye. Still wae her. M: So there’s something there you like enough to keep it going. Yeah I’ve got feelings for her. And whit can you dae when you get feelings for somebody, [sighs] you cannae just get rid of them can ye. It’s different then. When she comes up to visit me, every Tuesday and Sunday, it’s like…(long pause) I dunno, if she gets her own flat when I get oot I might move in wae her, but if no then I’m going in wae ma mam. M: And how are you doing with the drugs now? Good. Aye. M: Cause you’re quite a lot thinner than 2 years ago when I saw you, your face is quite thin. Aye I was fat wasn’t i? M: I don’t think you were fat, I dunno. I feel I’ve put a lot of weight on, I’m back tae 12 stone 8, so that’s good, you should have seen me like a few months back, I was like… M: And you feel ok, and you’re clean in the prison. Definitely. M: This is kind of a crappy place to have an interview isn’t it, lots of people sitting around… Aye it’s mad eh. M: I can imagine you don’t want to say anything in here. Naw, I’ll say anything you ask me. M: I was just thinking, but you know like taking drugs in prison, I’d probably be like, no, never (laughs). 16:29.0 – 18:28.0 Naw I would tell ye if I was honestly, I’m on ma methadone aren’t a, naw I would be honest, I’m honest, I don’t tell lies, unless it’s… M: You can just look at the recorder and go…(laughs). Nah there’s no point no being honest wae you is there. M: No you’d just get lies in your life story (laughs). Nah I wouldnae want that. M: So, like, the last time you were talking quite a lot about your son and already finding it hard to get contact and the social worker told you they didn’t want you to phone him, and you said you really wanted to go and fight to get him. I did. M: Did that go anywhere then… Nope, as soon as I got oot, I was phoning, wisnae getting an answer, and then by the time I got to the social worker she said eh ‘H disnae want to speak to you, but you’re allowed letterbox contact’. And I was like, cheers. But I was gutted, it was horrible. M: Why did they say he didn’t want to speak to you? Cause they kept saying he was getting emotional, and then upset, and, it wisnae they didnae want me to speak to him, it was he didnae want to speak to me. And I have to respect that, so I was like fair enough. And then I didnae hear nothing else, and I sent him a card doon no that long ago, and I’ve heard nothing. They were supposed to send me up em, paperwork on his last day, what’s it called, care plan review, and I never got none of that sent to ma mum’s either, I’ve heard nothing. And it’s father’s day on Sunday, and also his birthday soon. And, I think they’re oot of order, social workers, they’ve done what they wanted, to push me away. But, I heard that, his mum’s having another kid, and she’s working so hopefully she gets custody of him eventually, I don’t know. 18:28.0 – 20:20.0 M: Ok so he’s not been adopted, cause at the time you were worried he might get adopted, cause she was in a state at the time. Aye she was, she’s no noo though, and, eh, she might be having another kid and that so, hopefully, hopefully she’ll get eh custody of him, I don’t know, maybe… M: But you didn’t try to get him up here, cause that’s kind of what you were hoping for, you said you were going to get him, get your mum to have custody, or do it together… Aye, ma mum went to a court and all that, and they refused her. M: Oh right. Shite eh. I thought it was shite anyway. I think it was oot of order. M: It sounds like she has quite a stable life, obviously she’s been ill but… Aye I would, I don’t want him to be in care, I want him to be with his mum or be with me or his granny or whatever, but, he’s no going to be wae me, he’s no going to be wae ma mum, but if he could be wae her then I’d be happy wae that. But she, she’s no like that, she disnae want him to be wae me or ma mum. I don’t know why. Maybe cause she’s horrible. M: You don’t choose your women well then. (laughs) naw I don’t, they choose me. I’ve never choosed, I’ve never, I don’t ever choose. I think I should. M: Start chasing you, you should go for people you like. I think I should then aye, I’ve never thought of that. I think it’s about time that I chose (laughs). M: Well you’ve picked the one you’re with now so… Well I’ve got feelings for her haven’t I so I’ve got nae choice. And it’s strong feelings. Aye, so, I’m stuck…she cheated on me an all [slight laugh]. 20:20.0 – 22:31.0 M: While you’ve been in here? Bad, eh? M: But she still comes twice a week. Aye. M: And she told you that she cheated on you? She’d nae choice, she’s pregnant. M: Oh really, oh no. I know. Heavy eh. M: And is she with the… I’ve no really told many people, I had to, I told ma mam about it though, cause I had to tell ma ma….but it’s naebody else’s business I suppose. M: So what are you going to do, who’s the baby’s dad, is he going to be involved or is he away? I don’t know, that’s what I said to her, I says you’re going to have to tell the guy. And, cause it’s obviously, he needs to know. And, I don’t know, it’s just sinking in, it was only last week she told me. M: Oh right ok. So it’s…I’m no gonnae just tell her to beat it, cause, that would be wrong, cause it’s happening all over the place nowadays, like, people are bringing up other people’s kids and stuff eh. And I wisnae there for the birth of ma son so maybe I’m getting an opportunity to be at a birth noo, and I might be able to change ma life, and be there for somebody else’s kid, rather than my own kid. I don’t know though, that’s just what I’m thinking the noo, I don’t know if that’s what’ll happen. But… M: Just to warn you, most women don’t get less nippy when they have children, they tend to get more nippy. I know, I’ve said to her, she needs to stop it, and she says ‘well you need to stop gieing me reasons tae’, I’m like, how does that work (laughs). It’s murder. So I’ve to stop gieing her reasons. She’s just going to be nippy and that’s it, I’ve to accept it. Cause women are always right, innit. M: Well… That’s what it is…so aye, that’s the wae it’ll be, she’s pregnant, she’s cheated, I’m in here, it’s ma fault, know what I mean. 22:31.0 – 24:27.0 M: Did you get caught the first time you were housebreaking or had you been doing quite a lot? Caught right away (laughs). I was oot ma nut on drugs. Finger prints, blood, cut ma hand, look, ma pinky. M: That was while you were doing the housebreaking? So they didn’t catch you right then, they caught you after? Aye, they came through ma door a couple of days later…it was quite a bad one, I nearly cut ma pinky aff. I nearly bled to death, if it wisnae for her putting a thingy round it and tieing it tight. M: So you were still together when you were like, taking all the drugs and stuff? Well, I was, I went, I have to go oot and get ma methadone, so when I was oot getting ma methadone I was taking drugs. M: And she didn’t know? Nah…she knew when I came to the door though, covered in blood, in a state, with loads of stolen stuff on me. Going aff her nut. I think she knew I was going to get the jail then. M: And has this sentence been any different from other ones? (pause) I don’t know you know, I’ve been thinking a lot mare, talking aboot things a lot mare, no like, eh, like, how I was missing prison, how I feel like subconsciously I’m coming back here, eh, how I feel like I need tae learn something different or I’m just going to keep daeing the same stuff. I’ve been thinking better so maybe…that’s different. I think. 24:27.0 – 26:58.0 M: And have you had more support, it sounds like you’ve been going to a group, what kind of group is that? It’s called Smart Recovery. M: oh right you said. I don’t know, I’ve got eh M, he’s ma lifeline worker. But he comes doon to the group, I’ve no saw him since I’ve been going, I’ve went like 4 times now to it. I said to him on Wednesday there ‘I used to have a Lifeline worker and all’. He’s like ‘how dare you’, I says ‘well it’s true, you used to come and see me once a week (laughs), and now I’ve no seen you since I’ve been coming to these groups’. M: And what did he say. He just laughed. So I’ll probably see him soon (laughs). M: So what does he do for you then? Eh, just talks to us aboot drugs and what I want to dae when I get oot and, eh, ma past, and see if there’s something I need tae talk aboot, that I might be stuck wae. M: And can he help you with any stuff outside like getting a house again or? I think they can meet you the day you get oot, and then take you to, like housing, social, stuff like that. Which is good. And plus wae meeting them the day you get oot it stops you fae taking drugs. M: Although you managed that fine last time, so maybe it’s not the first bit for you out of prison that’s hard, it’s more the- The later on stage. I know. It’s been like that for years noo. I always dae well when I get oot, I cannae maintain it. But I get different obstacles in the way. But I’m learning. I wished I learned a lot more when I was young, then it wouldn’t be happening noo. But, as you can see…all I learned to dae was sniff solvents and steal (laughs). You can just see it…shit, eh. It’s no been a shit life, it’s just shit that that’s the case…but…if it wisnae for that life I wouldnae be the person I am today. And everybody tells me I’m a good person so, that’s something. 26:58.0 – 28:40.0 M: Well you come across that way… I’m just silly. M: Are you still in touch with the nun that you met on the bus that time? I remember, she was ma mate, she fell oot wae me. M: Oh did she. Cause of M, that’s ma girlfriend’s name, M, cause of her. I think L cared a bit mare than she said. Shite eh. She was a good friend. M: You can’t, she’s a nun, but… Three years of friendship. Gone, like that. M: That’s a shame. She wisnae a real nun, she was just, she’d mental health problems. But she was a good friend, I used to sit and talk to her and stuff. I liked her…3 years of friendship. She never told me she didnae want to see me again until, like, cause when I met M I was still homeless at the time, to start wae. M: Where did you meet her? Emm, outside L’s hoose, I’d just come oot of L’s. And what I was daeing was, when I went to meet M, we could only spend so much time wae each other at night time, cause we’d nowhere to go and that, so what we’d dae is we’d go up to L’s and have a coffee and stuff. And we’d sit and just one night L just said ‘know what, the two of yous get oot, don’t want to speak to you anymare, beat it’. I was like, (sighs), and I never spoke to her since. 28:40.0 – 30:36.0 M: Mmm, it might have just been that she found it hard to see you with somebody else? Thought she was meant to be ma friend. M: I don’t know, if you’ve ever been somebody’s friend who you’ve actually wanted to be more with, it’s quite hard isn’t it. Well…no really I’ve never really had a girlfriend. M: No but if you’re friends with somebody who you’d like to be your girlfriend, then you see them all the time with their partner, then that’s… Aye it’d be horrible wouldn’t it. Aye, suppose…aye, suppose. M: Maybe you should get in touch with her. Yeah… M: Well if she was a good friend. She was… M: so, and do you think this sentence is fair? (pause) well yeah. Breaking into somebody’s hoose? It’s terrible innit [short laugh]… M: Why? You shouldnae break into people’s hooses, it’s wrong. It’s really low. I would HATE it. M: Had you done that before, because last time you told me more about breaking into businesses. Aye buildings and shops and stuff, I know, that’s what I usually would dae when I was younger, eh, that’s where it all started, breaking into like buildings and, shops, and just being stupid when I was young. And then it started going into hooses when I got a wee bit older. M: So if you think it’s so bad, why do it? I don’t know. I wish I knew that [slight laugh]. Taking valium, drink… M: You just do whatever? Basically aye. That’s what I’m saying I cannae control maself, I just steal. It’s wrong. And if I had the answers I would be…I wouldnae be sitting here would I (laughs). I wouldnae be like in jail anymare. 30:36.0 – 33:00.0 M: You thought it was fair enough, did the judge say anything when he sentenced you this time? No really no, just sentenced me. I think he was glad tae sentence me because I was annoying him. I kept getting it put aff every week cause I wanted to get mare, see when you’re on remand, you get a visit every day. And you get canteen twice a week. So I kept asking to be kept on remand. But ma full remand was up, and he couldnae dae it anymare, and I was like, aww, I had to sack ma lawyer to get a longer remand, then I went back doon, I got ma lawyer back, I got remand, and, and he was getting annoyed, so, he was actually relieved to get me sentenced I think mare than anything. Just to get me oot, aye, he says ‘you cannae keep staying on remand, you need to get sentenced sometime’. I was like ‘I know’. M: Did he say that to you? Aye [laughs]. M: So he’d seen through that thing. I had 3 other judges dealing wae me cause of it, and they were all, they must all have been talking, cause I got to know one of them, and he said, eh, cause of the relationship we built up during that time, he had to withdraw from the court, and put a letter in, because it could have been, em, disputed, the sentencing. M: Because he knew you? Basically, but he doesn’t know me, he’d only spoke to me like just like going up and going away again. So he didnae know me. But because we had a laugh and a joke and that…. M: With the judge? How did you get time to do that? Cause I sacked ma lawyer and then he’s like, ‘do I need to call the witnesses?’ and I was like ‘naw, you don’t need to’, and he’s like ‘so do you want the lawyer back then’, and he shouted them oot, and he’s like ‘I’m sorry’, he said to the lawyer, ‘for this client wasting your time’. I says ‘I’m always wasting his time and that’, and they were laughing and all that. And then he’s like, ‘right so you agree we don’t need witnesses and you’re pleading guilty?’, I was like that, ‘aye’, ‘and you want your lawyer back’, I was like ‘aye’, and he’s like ‘right we’ll remand you for one mare week, only one mare week, and after that you come back and get sentenced, do you want to come in front of me?’ I was like that, ‘aye, aye that’ll be alright’. And then when I went back doon he couldnae so he put a letter in tae… 33:00.0 – 34:59.0 M: And do you think he’d have given you less? I don’t know, he might have gied me mare. [both laught] But that’s what… M: Why did he give you that extra week of remand, cause you just got your lawyer back, you didn’t want witnesses, you pleaded guilty, so he might as well have sentenced you then no? Aye I told him that I needed a longer remand tae see ma mum more, cause she was going through…. M: So they knew that, they knew your circumstances. Aye, and the thing was, see ma mum, I couldnae have visits fae ma mum when, you have to book it, the visits, the day before, and ma mam might be no well, so she wouldnae make the visit, so if I was over in like, that was the best way for her, like, to book it the day before, but if I was over in convicted you book it a week in advance. So I couldnae go right I’ll book it this week for next week, and then that, cause she was going through chemo still. So, wae getting the remand again it meant I could go right, ma mum’s alright tomorrow so I’ll book it noo, she can come up. M: So how has that been then since you’ve been sentenced, have you seen her? Aye, she comes up every week, her chemo’s done noo. She comes up, she was up yesterday, every Wednesday. M: You’ve got quite a lot, cause you said Sunday and Tuesday you said your girlfriend… Aye wae M aye. M: And then Wednesday your mum? Aye, and I phone ma mum every night tae, and M, I phone her every night. So… M: Does that make it easier or harder when you have that much contact with the outside world? Mmm, it helps doesn’t it, cause you want to see your family, don’t you, the people that you care aboot. Gies you something to look forward tae, obviously it’s shite cause you don’t get to spend a lot of time wae them but, better than nothing I suppose. M: Some people say they don’t do that because then they can keep their head inside and they don’t get reminded of what’s out, but you don’t do it that way. 34:59.0 – 36:56.0 Nah. If it was ma kids or something I’d be like, I would hate it I think. Cause then I would, I dunno, like, you want to be wae your kids mare I think, don’t you. Like, you want to be wae your mum, and your girlfriend, obviously, but no as much as you would want to be wae the kids, cause they grow up quick don’t they. Aye, so I reckon, I can understand that, if it’s kids they’re talking aboot, but if it’s like their mum or their girlfriend and that, then…maybe their girlfriend, cause you want to be wae your girlfriend mare. M: Are you missing that, or not? (sighs) I dae miss her obviously, but…I don’t, I don’t know how I could handle going back into a relationship if she’s gonnae be nippy. And noo everything that’s went on since I’ve been in here, it’s like (sighs), I’m just taking it day by day the noo. Cause you never know, by the end of ma sentence I might no be wae her anymare. She might leave me. M: It’s possible. But it’s horrible what’s happened… M: When are you coming out again? Eh December the 2nd. M: I’ll just write that down so I know…it’s not that long anymore but it’s still a lot of time isn’t it. Yeah. 2nd of December 2016. M: Do you think that anything else could have happened that would have worked better for you than being here, or is it actually the prison that you kind of want anyway? 36:56.0 – 38:58.0 Naw I don’t want prison (laughs) I’ve lost ma flat which is, horrible, noo I’m as good as homeless. Eh…I definitely dinnae want this. M: So what do you think would have been better? Being wae ma girlfriend and it being ma kid (laughs). And contact wae ma son, and ma ma never having cancer. That would have been better. M: But from the criminal justice system though, so you broke into the house and you got caught, so what do you think should have happened about that? I should have been sentenced, so aye. But I’ve never had the opportunity tae, every time I dae dae something, see how I was daeing well to start wae, before I went back on the drugs and that, I could have been stopped, put back in the community, and learn to work through it. I’ve never been able to work through it, I’ve always been sent tae jail for so long. Then I get back oot again and it’s like starting again kind of thing eh. And then I’m only get that far again and then daeing it all over again. M: So how do they stop you and help you to work through it? I havenae got a clue. M: It’s an interesting point, so if you got a DTTO for example, do you think you would have managed that, or probation or community service, or any of those kind of, or community payback order? Well I don’t know cause like, see how you’ve done so well and then you’ve went aff the rails, if they stopped you when you’ve went aff the rails and went ‘look, this is what’s going to happen, you need tae dae that, and get your heid together’. But if you’re too far gone then that wouldnae work. Maybe a wee snide sentence just to gie you a shake, and then let you back oot, tae try, but sending you away for years…there’s nae point. 38:58.0 – 40:41.0 M: It just doesn’t give you any practice at doing the things you were finding difficult. Nope, you just get, you’re just getting stunted and flung away until…until you get an opportunity to get back oot again. It’s crazy. Shouldnae send you away for years, they should look at the crimes and, the charge, and see what’s involved. And if it’s calculated and set up like, planned, then aye, maybe send you away. None of ma stuff’s calculated or planned, it’s just spur of the moment stuff, oot ma nut on drink and drugs. M: So what would it take for you to call somebody, like you said you had people who you could have phoned? You never dae eh. M: Why not? I don’t know it’s just a thing, naebody ever does, really, I don’t think. Probably get one oot of a hundred that does. M: I was talking to people who were coming out of prison but they had support from, like peer support, so people who had also been in prison, and they phoned them quite a lot, when they were having a hard time… Aye, that’s at the start, but see when you’re in the middle of it they’re no going to phone them then. Cause I’ve done it, many a times, at the start, these people, D and that are brilliant guys, good good people, brilliant to talk tae, brilliant to go for coffee wae, brilliant to go to meetings wae, brilliant to dae hunners of things wae, but when you’re in the middle of it, they people are the last people you want to phone. M: Because they’d be disappointed or…? Naw the drug dealer’s the one you want to phone (laughs). Just the way it is. 40:41.0 – 42:24.0 M: So what do you think the point of being given this sentence is, why do you think the judge gave you it? I don’t know I think it’s just the way it is, it’s, they calculated it up like that and just thought I’ll gie him 25 months. M: How do they calculate it. I’ve no got a clue. He said something aboot 30 month, then he taken aff a fifth or something, doon to 25 months, I dunno… M: You don’t know why he took off a fifth either? Aye it’s weird. For pleading guilty maybe. Just the way he did it. I don’t know… M: So do you think it’ll make any difference for you? I hope so. I really hope so. Hopefully I don’t come back, but I’ve said that, many times before (laughs). It’s starting to get annoying… M: Some people say it’s not something you can do in one go, but you do slowly, so… Well I’ve been daeing it slowly haven’t I, for years, trying and trying. Sometimes I get fed up trying I just think, ach, I’m no trying anymare, I’m just gonnae accept it. But then I think, I need tae try, cannae give in. I’ve got to fight it. Keep trying (laughs). It’s mad. M: A bit like, people give up smoking and they go back and back and eventually one time they manage it. And they don’t dae it ever again. M: Or they go longer and longer and longer, might not be a one off thing. 42:24.0 – 44:46.0 It’s just hard when it’s been ma life, eh. And, it’s no what I want, but it’s the way it is. M: What do you want? I would love tae have a good girlfriend, a family, a hoose, be able to drive a car, and have a job. That’s all…and to be comfortable and happy. Nothing else. M: When are you comfortable and happy? (pause) when I’m wae ma mam [laughs and sighs at same time]. M: Really? Aye…aye when I’m at ma mum’s. M: Maybe that would be the best place to be. I know….aye, when am wae ma wee mammy. M: It’s good she’s doing well then. Innit. She’s a wee soldier. I just hope in October it all goes good… M: It’s interesting how close you are when she wasn’t always the best when you were little. I know, mad eh. M: Do you think that’s maybe partly why, because she wasn’t there then, so, she’s there now kind of thing. Aye…I think that’s what it’s got a lot to do wae, my whole life, ma mum. Maybe. M: What does she say, like when you went back to prison? She says I need to stop dwelling on ma past and just move forward and get on wae it all. I’m like, right (laughs)…I get a good laugh when I get oot and am wae her, see when I first get oot and I stayed aff the drugs and that, I’d go shopping wae her, just, it’s just funny eh, spending time wae her. Cause she’s alright, ma mum. Took me ages to get that friendship wae her though. Know like, being ma mum and being a friend, it’s hard. Cause I was in England for so long 44:46.0 – 46:32.0 M: And how long since you came back up here then? I came back in 2012, and I’ve tried hard to get ma mum to be a friend AND a mum. But it’s working, it’s getting there. M: What’s been the best time, or the best memory that you have from the last 2 years? Staying at ma mum’s. M: Right at the start? Aye…when I’m clean and I’m staying at ma mum’s I’m just on ma medication and that, ma methadone. M: So why did you move out from hers, if that was the best? I wisnae, what’s it called, I wisnae allowed to stay any longer, cause the council, it was affecting ma mam’s money and that. Which was oot of order, cause, cause of that I ended up, I got my own flat and then I got wae M then I ended up back on drugs, I don’t know if it was because of that in fact, there’s loads of factors. But…I don’t know, maybe I, maybe I wisnae ready to be moved into a flat on my own wae ma girlfriend. Cause every time that seems to happen I seem to go back to drugs. But if I can share a flat, a cell wae a guy for months, withoot an argument, I dunno how I cannae share a flat wae a girl, withoot an argument (laughs). Just nippy. I don’t understand it. 46:32.0 – 48:38.0 M: I guess the girl wants more from you than your cell mate does, probably, and you should want more from her…. Aye, that will be it, I suppose, aye that’s it innit. M: Cell mate I imagine you’d just be like quite considerate of each other because you don’t want to fall out. Aye I get that, aye you’re right, that’s what it is innit. M: Maybe. Naw it seems aboot that (laughs). M: And what’s your worst memory, or like the worst time since I spoke to you? Coming back here…it’s horrible. Knowing that I was gonnae lose everything…. M: Is that what makes it horrible, or is it horrible in other ways as well? Aye, cause you’ve got nothing and you’re back in jail, and, it’s just horrible…back into a cell. Hate it [short laugh]. But once you settle in it’s, back to normality again. The norm. M: So this is the norm for you more than being outside? Naw naw, no, I don’t mean it like that (laughs) I mean you just get back into a routine don’t you, that’s what I miss outside I think, the routine, and structure, when ma routine’s messed up it’s… M: And what were you doing outside with your days? (pause) waiting on her getting ready wae her make up (laughs). M: (laughing) that can’t have been all day though. Aye. M: I won’t believe you, what were you doing. That was it (laughing), arguing aboot her and her makeup. (unclear)… M: Were you in the house mostly or were you going to…(unclear – meetings?) Aye I was going and daeing all that tae start wae…but, all that stopped. And then it was just going oot tae get ma methadone and coming back and staying in wae her. 48:38.0 – 50:39.0 M: Right so why did the other things stop? (pause) I just couldnae be bothered going anymare…(laughs) rubbish eh? I was getting, I felt exhausted, you get exhausted daeing it eh running aboot tae like meetings every day, serenity caf every day. M: So why not go once a week or…? I could’ve aye… M: It’s just that you say in here you have routine and outside… Aye but it’s all close in here, know like, it’s all like…it’s one step, just put stuff, wash yer face, cream (?) on, fix yer hair, and that’s you done. Or jump in a shower, clathes on, go where you need tae go. M: Onto the route. Aye, jump onto the route and you’re there (laughs) literally. M: No buses or being late… Just wait for a runner, that’s what they call them, a runner, a screw takes you where you need tae go. M: So what do you think like the criminal justice achieves, what has it achieved for you? I don’t think it’s achieved anything. I think it’s…let me doon, massively. And if it had achieved anything it would have achieved it when I was 16 years of age. M: Right, and what should it, so how did it let you down then? Cause it just throws you in and leaves you. (long pause) But there’s too many people to focus on, and if, if they didnae have people like us they wouldnae have work. And there wouldnae be this. So it’s just part of life. 50:39.0 – 52:56.0 M: So what should they have done when you were 16, cause you said if they could have achieved anything it would have been then. I don’t know, maybe when I was younger, I don’t know, I think there might be something wrong wae me, that’s why I dae what I dae. I don’t know. Too late noo, I’ve grown into it all haven’t I? I’m still trying to learn, to change ma behaviour. It’s all part of a cycle innit. Just the way things are. It’s life. Shite though. M: It’s not everyone’s life though. No I know, I know it’s no. But it’s been ma life and that’s why am trying tae learn a different…a different route. I need tae learn a different route. M: So what do you think the future looks like, you said you’re taking it one day at a time so maybe I shouldn’t ask you that. Aye I dunno what it looks like. I’m just glad I’ve still got one (laughs). Still got a future. I could change it still. M: You’re about my age, you’re only about halfway through really, still got loads of stuff. 37, that’s old. M: But not really old (both laughing). You’re not young anymore and that’s the interesting thing isn’t it, when you’re not young anymore… 20 year I’ll be like ‘ohhh’, struggling tae move. Nah I’ll be alright. M: Your mum, what age is your mum? 55 I think. So she’s, is she struggling to move? Nah, but that’s the way I thought it would be but the mare I’ve noticed 50 year olds and that are quite strong and fit still. So…maybe no. Maybe I’ll have a good 30 year left, where I can be strong. That’s still quite good you know eh. Another 30 year left. Aye I’d be happy wae that. And then, next 10 or 20 year after that… 52:56.0 – 54:49.0 M: Where you’re just less strong, but that will make it easier not to break into houses (both laughing). I don’t mean like that, aye (laughing)…nah. I’d be able to be strong tae have a life. That life that I want, wae the hoose, driving, job, girlfriend and kids. Still got time to have that. M: What would you like to do, what kind of job would you like? I don’t know, I cut hair the noo, so maybe a barber, a barbeeer. Aye, working in the hairdresser. That would be alright I suppose…cause there’s always money tae be made daeing that isn’t there. A wee hairdressing shop. M: Your own business kind of thing? That would be good eh. M: You don’t have to apply for a job, if you have the money to set up a business, I think you can get loans for that, can you not? Like enterprise things. I think so. I would probably want to be like, a worker of some sort. I’d want to cut hair and all like that, but I’d want to be like, a drug worker of some kind. Know like, to share my experience wae people. That’d be good. M: You should look into that next time you’re out and you’re doing well… I’ve got a lot I need to dae though, like, work on myself, come aff ma methadone…need tae dae that. 54:49.0 – 57:19.0 M: So what do you do for money when you’re outside? Nothing. M: But you had a house so you must have got housing benefits? Aye social. M: Right, so you have to go to quite a lot of appointments for that don’t you these days? Go on the sick… M: So when you’re on the sick don’t you have to go to all these appointments too? No as much. Cause all you need to do is get a sicknote from the doctor. But you have to go to the, eh a medical, if you pass that then you get like, two hundred odd a fortnight I think it is. Tae dae you. M: That’s not lots. I know. I’d rather work. But if you don’t dae that then you don’t get, and you don’t get a job, then you’ve got nae money. So… M: So what do you think this sentence has meant to you? (pause) I dunno, it’s mad eh, cause it’s…there’s always a reason behind something…probably just meant to keep me alive. Tae get us- M: To me it sounds a little bit like this sentence is a bit disappointing in a way, you were more optimistic last time I spoke to you. Naw I’m still optimistic. M: I’m not saying you’re not but you sound disappointed in yourself a bit. Aye, I am, definitely. Say my mam only had like 6 month to live and here’s me in jail, imagine that. Well that’s no the case but, it could have been the case. I’m just questioning a lot of stuff the noo. I need tae be, I need tae think, and then I need tae think aboot, like you were saying aboot money situations, how am I gonnae get ma income, there’s loads of stuff. It’s no easy. Life’s hard (laughs). It’s brutal. Aye, life’s really hard…Aye it is. So whit do you dae wae all this, just listen to it? Do you just listen tae it all aye? 57:19.0 – 58:29.3 M: I listen to it and send it and somebody types it out, because I can’t really type for very long I get, my arms aren’t up for it so. It’s mad. M: And I look at it at the end. And dae they just sit and listen and type away? M: Yeah so they type it up. How dae they get ma, how dae they understand what I’m saying? M: She’s Scottish (both laughing), but I can understand what you’re saying so it’s fine. That’s kind of all the questions I’ve got but is there anything that you think is important about the last 2 years or about before that or about your sentences that you haven’t told me or I haven’t asked? That’s important? M: You know, that in your experience makes a difference into how you see these things or whatever, that we haven’t talked about? Emmm…(sighs)…nope… M: In that case I’ll turn this off? END
